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Post by Gray Wolf on May 19, 2021 23:22:57 GMT
Survivor is a game of skill. There are moves to be made and pieces on the board to get around, all to maneuver yourself to the end.
In this section, please feel free to talk about the moves that were made, and what the strategies were for getting to the end and ultimately trying to win the game.
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Frog
Endangered
Hopper
Posts: 662
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Post by Frog on May 21, 2021 8:29:29 GMT
Capybara, you mentioned my elimination in your speech, and I agree that you would most likely to have benefited from getting my name gone. However you chose to vote with me that round. For what reason?
I believe when I was taken out to have been the correct timing, or at least based on the results, I would very likely to have received immunity the next round. Speaking of immunity, Besides when two of you grabbed it yourselves, did anybody in particular having individual immunity in any given round throughout the game adjust your strategy?
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How did you all use and abuse the rest of us Animals? What chaos can be attributed to you? I need the deets of drama. I was over in the corner being vaguely threatening, I don't actually know anything about what was actually happening.
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Eagle
Endangered
The Eagle silently judges you.
Posts: 364
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Post by Eagle on May 21, 2021 9:06:00 GMT
The hologram of the Eagle pauses as it thinks to itself.
"I suppose while I am trapped in this godforsaken exhibit, we can reminisce a little about our journey here."
"Capybara, you mentioned to me at Final Five that you wanted to take Cat to the end if you won FIC, but there was a moment where you sent me a message about how you were considering sending Cat to fire so you wouldn't split Aquatica votes with them. I know to some extent I shot this down by requesting to be placed in firemaking against the Kestrel, but had I not, was this something you genuinely wanted to do?"
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Post by Capybara on May 21, 2021 10:13:17 GMT
Capybara, you mentioned my elimination in your speech, and I agree that you would most likely to have benefited from getting my name gone. However you chose to vote with me that round. For what reason? I believe when I was taken out to have been the correct timing, or at least based on the results, I would very likely to have received immunity the next round. Speaking of immunity, Besides when two of you grabbed it yourselves, did anybody in particular having individual immunity in any given round throughout the game adjust your strategy? --- How did you all use and abuse the rest of us Animals? What chaos can be attributed to you? I need the deets of drama. I was over in the corner being vaguely threatening, I don't actually know anything about what was actually happening. Hey Frog! So I actually did not vote with you that round, that was Eagle who voted with out out of fear of an idol play. I was trying to sniff out if you had an idol and was trying to see if you had any thoughts on what the idol solution could be so I might be able to snag it. As far as people being immune changing who to vote for I think the only time it really mattered was at final 5 as if Rat were immune that would have probably sent Eagle home. As far as using and abusing I don't really like manipulating people though I do think that our relationship I abused in the end by voting you out. You were a close ally at that point and you had stuck your neck out for me so voting for you that round was kinda cold. I would also say my relationship with Flapjack was extorted as well as they were someone I think would have considered me close but ended up eliminating as well.
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Post by Capybara on May 21, 2021 10:16:25 GMT
The hologram of the Eagle pauses as it thinks to itself."I suppose while I am trapped in this godforsaken exhibit, we can reminisce a little about our journey here." "Capybara, you mentioned to me at Final Five that you wanted to take Cat to the end if you won FIC, but there was a moment where you sent me a message about how you were considering sending Cat to fire so you wouldn't split Aquatica votes with them. I know to some extent I shot this down by requesting to be placed in firemaking against the Kestrel, but had I not, was this something you genuinely wanted to do?" The Capybara scratches his muzzle in thought"I was briefly on the fence about that after what Snowy had said. I knew Cat was a social threat and that it may benefit me to eliminate them but I also wanted to stay loyal as much as I could. Cat was someone who I had told I was going to go to the finals with if I was able to so I would have wanted to honor that. At that point in the game I think you were the biggest threat to win. That said if I did win and sent you and Kestrel into the Firemaking I think you would be here instead of Kestrel as Kestrel's challenge performance was fine but I think yours was stronger and thus you would have beaten them."
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Frog
Endangered
Hopper
Posts: 662
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Post by Frog on May 21, 2021 14:10:40 GMT
Capybara, you mentioned my elimination in your speech, and I agree that you would most likely to have benefited from getting my name gone. However you chose to vote with me that round. For what reason? I believe when I was taken out to have been the correct timing, or at least based on the results, I would very likely to have received immunity the next round. Speaking of immunity, Besides when two of you grabbed it yourselves, did anybody in particular having individual immunity in any given round throughout the game adjust your strategy? --- How did you all use and abuse the rest of us Animals? What chaos can be attributed to you? I need the deets of drama. I was over in the corner being vaguely threatening, I don't actually know anything about what was actually happening. Hey Frog! So I actually did not vote with you that round, that was Eagle who voted with out out of fear of an idol play. I was trying to sniff out if you had an idol and was trying to see if you had any thoughts on what the idol solution could be so I might be able to snag it. As far as people being immune changing who to vote for I think the only time it really mattered was at final 5 as if Rat were immune that would have probably sent Eagle home. As far as using and abusing I don't really like manipulating people though I do think that our relationship I abused in the end by voting you out. You were a close ally at that point and you had stuck your neck out for me so voting for you that round was kinda cold. I would also say my relationship with Flapjack was extorted as well as they were someone I think would have considered me close but ended up eliminating as well. That 5-2 vote makes a lot more sense in that context, sorry for assuming you'd randomly stayed loyal (with you being the only person I'd told I was voting Lion) You mentioning Flapjack there confirms to my mind what I was after with that immunity question. I'm not actually sure why it was important, but I needed to re-evaluate some of my thoughts about Aquatica. I'll potentially ask more questions here once the other two have answered. And other jurors have had their turns.
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Cat
Animalia
meow!!
Posts: 495
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Post by Cat on May 21, 2021 14:24:54 GMT
How did you all use and abuse the rest of us Animals? What chaos can be attributed to you? I need the deets of drama. I was over in the corner being vaguely threatening, I don't actually know anything about what was actually happening. Like Capybara, I didn't want to play a game of chaos, manipulation, and abuse. I feel like for the most part, I played a very straightforward game. Capybara and I were in an alliance with Flapjack Octopus and I had to choose Leopard Seal over Flappy. I'm pretty sure Flappy was blindsided by that vote and I did feel extremely bad. I also felt bad to have to vote you out. When I was talking about it with Capybara, it seemed like he wanted to wait one more round to vote you out. I knew I had the numbers with Bunny/Lion to vote you that round so it ultimately wouldn't have mattered even if Capybara hadn't wanted to. When Eagle approached me about idol fears with Lion and asked if I was okay voting for Bunny, I was very on board with this. This is the one time I also did not share that I was doing this with Kestrel because I knew they might not be down to vote Bunny. Basically in every situation, I made sure I had enough interested people to vote out who I wanted. This is my dream final 3 and I feel like it speaks to my strategy that I'm sitting here with Capybara and Kestrel.
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Kestrel
Animalia
I hate this challenge
Posts: 387
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Post by Kestrel on May 21, 2021 16:37:35 GMT
Capybara, you mentioned my elimination in your speech, and I agree that you would most likely to have benefited from getting my name gone. However you chose to vote with me that round. For what reason? I believe when I was taken out to have been the correct timing, or at least based on the results, I would very likely to have received immunity the next round. Speaking of immunity, Besides when two of you grabbed it yourselves, did anybody in particular having individual immunity in any given round throughout the game adjust your strategy? --- How did you all use and abuse the rest of us Animals? What chaos can be attributed to you? I need the deets of drama. I was over in the corner being vaguely threatening, I don't actually know anything about what was actually happening. I think in an ideal world, eagle not having as many immunities (it felt like one of rat/lion/eagle were immune a good chunk of late game) would've changed the layout of f4 a little, especially in the returnee round. Otherwise I think the game progressed in a fairly linear way? As I said, it helps to have options. Use and abuse, very little. Some people I didn't have the relationships with that I wanted - for example, I could never get a read on where your head was with me, and when I asked you sent a message back like 'friend kestrel, who is my friend...'. I put a lot of time and effort into talking to you, considering I knew I didn't want you anywhere near f7, because I enjoyed it . I gathered more information than I shared - for example, I think me and rat were the only people lion told about the cancelled f4 challenge, and rat told me he knew and found it hilarious when I did too. I didn't keep cat as up to date strategically as I did other people, but that just wasn't our relationship. I used lion at f6, for info, while knowing very little would change the outcome of the round. Ive said I'd have liked things with snowy to be different, especially as they felt abandoned by me on the returnee twist- its shoulda woulda coulda but if eagle hadnt been immune, if theydve come back one round earlier, if they'd have an advantage, If I wasn't so sick that day I'd been in urgent care....but I do think some of the blame is shared here.
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Rat
Endangered
Posts: 374
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Post by Rat on May 21, 2021 17:51:42 GMT
This question is for Kestrel.
So far you've mentioned my vote and bunny's vote where the outcomes were just going to happen regardless of what you did (If you think this is an unfair characterization feel free to respond).
As such my question is what rounds did you influence. Not like you controlled the entire round, but where you were near the tipping point on the vote? Why were those outcomes the best for your game? And lastly, how were they worse for your opponents here at FTC, preferably both of them?
Actually I suppose the phrasing of the question makes it so I can just ask it to all 3 without the preamble, so feel free to answer it as well Cat and Capy.
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Kestrel
Animalia
I hate this challenge
Posts: 387
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Post by Kestrel on May 21, 2021 18:24:47 GMT
With your vote, definitely not unfair - I wasn't going to lecture people into making a choice that really obviously worked better for me than them.
For bunny, I don't know what would have happened if I said 'no!' to eagle. It was a decision made under pressure, but even then I could see that it worked better for me in the long run.
The rest of your question is similar to something what sloth asked, so can I answer it there?
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Cat
Animalia
meow!!
Posts: 495
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Post by Cat on May 21, 2021 18:32:11 GMT
I also answered a similar question to Sloth. If that answer is not satisfactory, I would be happy to go into more detail!
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Post by Capybara on May 21, 2021 18:40:30 GMT
I think one of my biggest influence was on the Hedge vote, having that extra vote allowed us to turn the favor on that vote. I also feel like the Bunny vote I held some influence by having the extra vote as well, that helped lock in Cat and Eagle I feel and it didn't really matter what Kestrel did there. I think I've kinda gone over this previously but that took out a number for Terrestria which was kinda key as Sloth also went home that round. If that didn't happen Terrestria would have remained strong and I would have lost Frog as I don't think Eagle would go to rocks for Frog (the odds wouldn't have been in our favor either since Butterfly was immune). Regarding Bunny I still saw you three (Bunny/Rat/Lion) as a strong trio and breaking that up was helpful too as then we secured numbers going forward.
How were these worse for my fellow finalists? I think we've seen Bunny and Kestrel were quite close so taking out Bunny helped break that up. I know Kestrel was still a part of RECK but it gave Kestrel less options.
I feel like all three of us benefited from Hedge going home as that was one less number we had to face. I feel like Cat and I had a lot of the same people we wanted gone.
I think there are other rounds I could come up with examples for as well but those two were probably the biggest as far as merge.
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Rat
Endangered
Posts: 374
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Post by Rat on May 21, 2021 20:12:14 GMT
So not sure to continue in this thread on the one where they were answered, I think for me it's easier if I keep it in here so gonna ask here. Will quote the specific things I want elaboration on.
For Kestrel:
Is the entirety of your assertiveness on these votes that they had to happen but the order didn't matter? Did you do anything to quelch counterwagons outside of the frog example. Also it appears this approach is flawed considering vote Z did happen with bunny, so are you defending it wholesale or just for those votes? Also why were these votes worse for Cat and Capy? Cat seemed plenty fine to vote Frog after all and it's not like they were close to Snowy or Butterfly in any way that you weren't. In fact I think it might be fair to say you were closer to each of Snowy and Butterfly.
Secondly:
How did Bunny and Me going put you in a better position? Like this sounds like a bold assertion with you claiming you could have been taken to the end had either of us survived that far, which was implied to be your ideal situation, and instead you had to either make fire or win FIC. Secondly if Seal going means cat had to rely or weaker connections, but Bunny and Me going means that you didn't, does that mean we were the weaker connections? If yes, why? If not, what's the difference between them?
For Cat you said:
Can you expand on this? Basically why were you so confident in said relationships that the those votes would have happened? Like were there tells that made you certain? Things you were told that other people didn't know? Did you have some relationship chart or was it something a lot more low key?
Capy: I'd just like an example of something happening that was better for you than for Cat if you can think of any. If you can't than any round other than the ones you mentioned where you felt you had a slightly more active role than Cat in determining would suffice.
Also I get these are uh, very compound questions. I probably won't have many after this. Also please, take your time in answering them. I love deep breakdowns and the like over speedy responses and if that means waiting until even closing statements to hear answers, that's fine with me.
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Kestrel
Animalia
I hate this challenge
Posts: 387
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Post by Kestrel on May 21, 2021 20:25:28 GMT
Sorry, I'm going to respond to question two, and come back to one when I've been able to respond properly, because you are right I rushed an answer and made a mistake.
Your vote did not leave me in a better position - the opposite, in fact. I've discussed this elsewhere. Forgive me.
The bunny vote freed me from a tie that suddenly felt weirdly oppressive - I thought they saw the game in the shades of grey that I did, but suddenly the message I was getting back was that there was one very direct path to the end that started with keeping lion around and ended with me and them at f2, but without a huge commitment to an f4 I knew I could work with, (you/me/eagle/bunny), but even as f8/7 they didn't want to commit to this? It became a trust issue, because I couldn't see why it was this hard?
We were close, but at that point it was hard to see where the hesitancy to commit, matched with the certainty that they knew the way the next votes had to go (including some scenarios where cat came to boot me, which just felt odd?) Felt uncomfy.
By the time bunny went I had stronger connections in you, cat and eagle - it wasn't the same as someone as close to cat going early on, as relationships had developed. I shouldn't have included your name there, as I said.
Does that make sense?
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Cat
Animalia
meow!!
Posts: 495
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Post by Cat on May 21, 2021 20:41:35 GMT
For Cat you said: Can you expand on this? Basically why were you so confident in said relationships that the those votes would have happened? Like were there tells that made you certain? Things you were told that other people didn't know? Did you have some relationship chart or was it something a lot more low key? Hi Rat! I can break it down further! Things were looking not great for me when Seal went home. He was an important number to me and my closest ally. It was also not great that the lines had been drawn between the people who were loyal to him and not. Of course there was gray space like Kestrel, people who didn't actively attack me for voting with Seal's plan but were relieved Seal was gone. I would include Sloth and Owl in this group as well. I had identified that Hedgehog, Bunny, and Lion were 3 people who I probably could not have worked with/our goals were just too different. Owl and I had a really weird first meeting and I never could really tell what was going on with them. I was willing to keep engaging with them and potential work with Owl and Sloth but I knew at some point, Owl had to go. In Preya, it seemed easiest to vote out Sloth. I had some questions about Kestrel's relationship with Bunny but I wanted to go all in on RECK and I thought Eagle would be so mad at me if Kestrel didn't make it back to the merge. I felt forced to vote for Owl the next vote, which was not when I wanted to vote for Owl but again, it was okay since Owl had to go at some point and this vote wouldn't cause strife with Bunny/Lion/you. At this point, I had a lot of trust in Capybara, Frog, Eagle, and Kestrel for a total of 5 vs Bunny/Lion/you/Butterfly. I also didn't think you would vote for me because we did have RECK. When Owl left, it resumed this Butterfly vs Frog "showdown" (I felt like there was some hype built up around this but it was kind of anticlimatic). No one else was really willing to say names so it just became between the person who had been voted previously and a big threat in Frog. There were arguments at this point that Frog could go on an immunity run but I needed Frog to vote out Butterfly so it wouldn't be 4 v 4. After Butterfly was voted out, it was time to vote out Frog. I didn't know if Capybara wanted to vote him out that early but it sort of didn't matter anyway since I knew you/Lion/Bunny were willing to vote him out. The numbers were still 4 v 3. I wanted to vote for Lion mainly because I think Kestrel wanted final 3 to be Bunny, me, them and I wasn't sure Kestrel would be down to vote Bunny at this stage. When Lion created that post saying he had the idol, Eagle, Capybara, and I were willing to vote out Bunny. Even without Capybara's double vote, we had speculated that Kestrel probably wouldn't go to rocks for Bunny but luckily this theory did not have to be tested. After this vote we had you, Lion, Kestrel, Eagle, Capybara, me. I still had the same solid numbers and I felt the opposition was dwindling. Next vote was Lion. I know Kestrel said that they were emotional over this vote but I hadn't built up that kind of relationship with Lion. We were friendly and I thought he was a nice person but that was it. I also was kind of shocked that he would lie about having an idol to save himself and then say he had more items. We had talked about the Edge so I didn't feel it was necessary to try to get information out of Lion. Had I gone to firemaking with the original game that Kestrel knew about, I probably would not have won. I thought my odds of avoiding firemaking were pretty good though. And then there was you. We had a few conversations already about what happened and why your good arguments fell on deaf ears. I wanted to take Capybara and that was it. For final 4, I thought there were very good odds that both Capybara and Kestrel would take me (like they would take Eagle? and I knew I had a better relationship with both of them then they had to each other). All in all, I did not have a relationship chart but a general knowledge of how people felt about who and I spent a lot of time thinking about numbers and how many people I needed and when for a particular vote.
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